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  • You are here: Blogs Directory / Personal / Mel's Odd Stuff / Comment List Welcome Guest

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    Morning mel, As one who has seen first hand what drink can do to people in positions of responsibility & those with no obvious responsibilities I think I can join your debate?
    What is good for one is not necessary good for all, therefore it all depends on the individual. No person can or should say: Thou shalt not!
    Intoxicating liquor or spirit of the grape requires a process called distillation, wine on the other hand ferments naturally & therefore is less intoxicating.
    Jesus is talking about WINE fermenting naturally from the grape here, hence all the references to "Winepresses".
    This being so it should not be for the Christian to get drunk, "Which is to excess" Eph.5 or "do not get drunk on wine which leads to debauchery" depending on what version.
    Instead be filled with HS.
    So there we have it, it is not the drinking of wine, but the overdrinking of wine which Paul reminds us is not good, it leads to all sorts.
    If your brother does not drink, that is entirely up to him, so do not encourage him to take alcohol. "for it may be a millstone around the neck" Causing another to sin!
    Lk.17:2
    Individual responsibility means that, the consequences of anyones actions are the point of it all.
    Does it build up the people or does it drag them down??
    These are just my own thoughts & I take responsibility for them I am not trying to be a goody goody two shoes nor A party pooper.
    Hope this helps adding to the responses.
    Love in His Name Stuart
    2006-07-30 05:40:20 Posted by Stuart (stuart@sadrankin.com)

    I will agree with what you have already stated. I have close friends, Christians, who do drink the occasional glass of wine. At first, I was a bit uneasy with it. However, as one grows and learns, we do find the actual understanding of such things. I do not drink, never liked wine. I do not judge others who do. It really falls under the "personal conviction" category, I think. And one thing is sure, it is very bad to preach or teach personal convictions! That is the job of the Holy Spirit.

    In His Service,
    2006-07-30 08:05:19 Posted by Teri ()

    Hi, all! I'm not anywhere near my concordance at the moment, so I won't be able to quote the verses with references; you'll have to be content with my paraphrases, or better yet, maybe my paraphrases will send you to your concordances! :-)

    First, let me say that I went from the "don't drink anything at all" camp to the "don't drink if you have a problem with it" camp some years ago as I grew in my knowledge of the Bible. My original thinking was that if it was alcoholic, it could be nothing but trouble, based on my own history with the stuff. Not that I was ever an alcoholic, per se, but in my first year or so of being a legal adult, I was in a bad place in my life, and the wine coolers I drank occasionally only made my situation seem worse to me. I know firsthand that alcohol can be a mood enhancer - if you're in a good mood, it will make it seem better, and if you're in a bad or sad mood, it will make it seem worse, simply because alcohol lowers your natural inhibitions and loosens your self-control (especially if you drink it without a meal in your belly). Also, if your blood sugar level spikes when you eat or drink starches or sugars, alcoholic beverages tend to act on your system more quickly (there may not be medical proof of that, but I know from my own experience that it's true).

    So, I figured alcohol = evil.

    Later, though, I saw the verses Mel quoted in his post, plus others that say that "strong drink" (aka distilled drink, as Stuart points out) is a mocker and something to be avoided. Now, I'm not against people drinking a little Southern Comfort or whatever, if they can handle it (although the stuff tastes horrible to me). However, both the Bible and the bottle labels point out clearly that distilled alcohols are stronger than wine (look at the proof percentages), so moderation is definitely called for.

    Also, Paul tells us both that "while everything is permissible, not everything is beneficial," and that we should not allow our strong faith and the liberty it brings cause someone whose faith is not as strong to stumble. In other words, don't take BBQ pork to a Passover meal; don't give a diabetic a three-layer death-by-chocolate cake; and don't drink alcohol in front of someone who, by conviction or because of personal history, can't be drinking the stuff.

    By the same token, if we think we shouldn't eat pork or sugar, or drink alcohol, or whatever thing we don't do, we should not judge someone who does these things, and we should allow them the freedom to do it in front of us without getting offended. Understand, I'm not saying I'll tolerate someone blatantly and deliberately sinning in my presence; I'll most likely just get up and leave. But if I'm not drinking, I'm not doing to condemn someone for having a glass of something alcoholic in my presence.

    And I hope that, if I ask for a glass of sangria or a splash of rum in a pina colada, I won't offend anyone around me.
    2006-07-31 09:16:27 Posted by Traci ()

    What the crux of the matter is this: Sensitivity to those around you. In Romans 14, the "weak" (those whose faith cannnot allow certain things that God's Word leaves as permissable) ar not to judge the "strong" (those whose faith allows them to eat pork or drink wine or play golf or whatever else their faith allows them to do -- within the clear strictures of what God's Word says). And yet, Paul starts by looking the other way on this matter and talking about the stonger looking down upon the weaker and not to do it! (Sounds like something a Pharissee would do, if you ask me!) He also ends up by saying "It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall." and talks about keeping it between yourself and God.

    Like most things, it comes down to a matter of the heart. Will you give up meat for your brother? Will you give up golf for your sister? Will you give up wine for either of them? Maybe only in their pressence, which then some could call hypocrisy. Follow your heart for others, and I think you can do no great harm.

    And yes, not all is Beneficial.

    In Christ,

    Mel

    2006-07-31 11:23:30 Posted by Mel ()

    Sounds like you got what I meant, Mel. If we know it would hurt someone else to see us eating, drinking or doing something, then we shouldn't do it in front of them. As for giving it up altogether, I think we need to hear God on that and act accordingly. He may say we should give the thing up, even if only for a time, so that we can prove (to Him, ourselves and the other person) that this food, beverage or activity isn't a stronghold in our life.

    Personally, alcohol has never been a stronghold for me; I have one drink maybe three or four times in a year. Chocolate and starchy foods (specifically, potatoes in just about any form), on the other hand, are a different matter. God and I are working on the whole issue of my eating habits right now, and I'd ask that y'all pray for deliverance and victory in this area of my life.

    To bring my personal struggle into line with our topic here, I rarely met a chocolate I didn't like. This means that it can be a problem for me. At the same time, though, I'm not going to judge a person who can eat a whole giant bag of M&Ms without gaining an ounce. I may have to go to God about envying that person, but I'm not going to judge. And I'm not going to ask that person to stop eating chocolate because I'm in the room.

    On the flip side, I'd hope that a friend who knows I'm having weight problems (which is visibly obvious to anyone who's awake!) wouldn't wave a chocolate bar under my nose and offer it to me. What kind of love is that?
    2006-08-04 09:54:34 Posted by Traci ()

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