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Teri: This is how I feel about sin, repentance and forgiveness. I feel I sinned against you, not because of what I said, but how I said it. There are plenty of passages dealing with how we are to correct one another, and what we do not understand the same, may require us to talk about it. The best way is one repents and the other forgives. However, I am willing to accept that one might repent when the other percieves no sin. And the other can forgive when the first still does not see anything to repent of. The context of correction is to be loving and condsiderate of the other person's needs. Even something as extreme as excommunication is at least partially (if not primarily) for the purpose of bringing the brother (or sister) who is sinning back into line with God's will! If an issue is doctrinal, it is clearly a rebuke. If that rebuke is to be gentle, then how much more so must a person be gentle in explaining matters of faith!?! What had been talked about here before was a matter of faith, and mine is clearly the weaker if I cannot accept in faith what you can. That does not give me license to do as you do. But this understanding does allow me to not stand against you! As an example: The Church I became a Christian in held to the belief that musical instruments and a choir should not be part of our worship services. That was mostly based upon the fact that there is not a record of instruments used in the New Testament church. Even as a young Christian, I took that as a matter of faith, but generally submitted to it nonetheless. There were those amoung us that, when by ourselves, did use musical instruments. If a person rebuked me for that as a matter of doctrine, I would would rebuke them as well, for the arguement was not strong enough to be considered doctrine, in my mind. It was a matter of faith, and I stood on that. Strangely enough, the Church I was going to had a split over just that issue when I first got my wife to be to visit that church. The result was that I would have to choose to leave or forsake any relationship with her, because she would have nothing to do with a church breaking over such a petty thing as she saw it. I want my wife to hold me accountable for some things, but because of my belief in authority of man over woman, and her own stronger belief along those lines, she cannot! She will not accept a woman as president of the United States, while I, as a member of the Military who would then have a woman as Commander in Chief, can! That is strange. But the basis of her faith in that area is sound. She sees the Office of the President as a Spriritual Leader of our Country. And you know, she may be right! I have looked back at what those we call the Founding Fathers were explicitly expressing at the time of the forming of this country, and although there was little to nothing addressing a woman versus a man, there is plenty to set the record straight on what they really meant by the seperation of church and state. And it is clearly not the farce that has been fed to most of this last few generations of American Children by Godless Scoffers who would quote what someone would say and spit them with the same breath! On another matter of faith: The way people dress. As a young Christian, I had little in the way of clothes. Most of my wardrobe was Flannel Shirts and Blue Jeans. A brother actually rebuked me for my clothes in church, and as a young christian who knew no better, I was crushed! At the same time, there were young women in the same church who dressed in ways that were provacative enough to cause me to sin. For some reason, I read James. That was and still is one of my favaorite books. Please don't ask me why. I myself am not sure! Anyways, if you read that book, I am sure you will find the passage that I saw. I took that passage and stood before the body of believers, and I rebuked them as a body! I may have even used the term Jezzabel! (not sure, but that thought was there) I saw it as perfectly correct for a person to dress their best, if they were doing it to honor God, but I also saw it clearly as sin for them to put a burden such as the one that was put on me. I now see that in an even broader context as we tend to tie up burdens and put them on other peoples backs and not lift a finger to help them! Christ himslef talked about such behavior as that. It was a strong rebuke! As far as I am willing to take this, I am not sure yet. However, although I sincerely believe that abortion is WRONG, I feel just as strongly that I have not got the whole position right to confront a young woman who has gotten herself into that position (with more than a little help from someone else, obviously) unless I can offer here complete and true help in dealing with the situation. Please think of what I am saying here and let it sink in. James 2:15-17 (NIV) 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. Luke 11:46 (NIV)     46Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them. If I am being severe, please understand this: I rebuke myself on this matter as well! And Truely, it is my wish that it be well with you all! 2005-10-03 23:34:33 Posted by Mel ()

Nicely explained Mel and I stand with everything you say. God Bless 2005-10-04 05:02:49 Posted by Lee ()

It is NOT my desire to get into this again! I will do as I KNOW the Lord has called me to do!Trust me, this was not an overnight decision. The thing that we seem to get confused with is this: I was NOT called to assume a position of authority over anyone, nor do I try to usurp authority over anyone. You have every right, and in fact, an obligation to do, behave, serve, and worship as God leads you. On one hand, you say that you want me to be a part of this circle, then on the other hand, you start right back on this track. I do NOT feel that you or anyone sinned against me, yet I certainly do not feel as though I have sinned against anyone either. May I tell you that if God told me today that I was to never preach again, it would probably destroy me. Why, because that is one of the talents He gave me and it would be like carrying around a thousand dollars in my pocket and not be allowed to spend it. Please, please, please...can we just let this go! PLEASE!!! I am so sorry about all of this! 2005-10-04 19:00:47 Posted by Teri ()

Oh, wow...I think I may have been a little too touchy. Kinda bratty!!! Please forgive me? (I wish that I could edit.) I think all of you are great and I appreciate ALL of you. In His Service, 2005-10-04 20:12:20 Posted by Teri ()

I understand. We may fall all over each other in asking for forgiveness. You asked, so I forgive you, although I do not see yours as the sin here. I got his image of clowns running around in a three ring circus. I hope that there is still humor enough for us to laugh... ROFL Your brother, Mel 2005-10-04 23:52:54 Posted by Mel ()

There is definately enough humor. Thanks for forgiving me. Sometimes I can be overly defensive. O.K. if I still hang out with you then? In Christ's Love and In His Service, 2005-10-05 05:18:17 Posted by Teri ()

I think we'd all feel rejected and dejected if you did not!!! Bless you, Mel 2005-10-05 10:31:17 Posted by Mel ()

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