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So tell me this what if your child were to come home and inform you they were homosexual, would you simply chastise them and send them out into the world to fend with there sin alone thus alienating them even further from the truth of the gospel. While continuing on into chapter 2 you might be made aware that judgement is God's job. I don't believe by your judging them harshly you will draw them any closer to the Gosopel. Yes I understand it is sin I talk about sin regularly and I also believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I would think being clergy they should be aware of this also. I personally don't believe it is anyone afraid to call a sin a sin, I believe it is more the Church as a whole being sucked into the clinch of societal values rather than it's own. I alsobelieve that if you read Revelations you will find not all Churches are in line with Christ in fact most are completely off base perhaps more of a return to spiritual purity within the Church itself as opposed to a country club atmosphere would be a better approach. If in fact we are the Church we should be presenting the Gospelto the world and sharing the love of Christ that they to might know that love. Please don't get me completely wrong I do believe gay clergy as well as adultrous, idolotrous (money being by my estimation the largest form of idolatry in the US or pornagraphy) there is much to criticise the Church for don't make the mistake of thinking this is the biggest attach your faith faces. I'd rather see those growing rich adulterating the word of God be cleared out if it were my choice. I hate to use the catholic faith as an example, but don't you think adults molesting children is worse than adults carrying on a sinful relationship with one another is worse. They should at the very least be asked to remove themselves from their position or be removed . A sinful Pastor shepards a sinful people, but I guess thats a given God bless 2007-08-31 18:23:36 Posted by Ross ()

Ross, thank you for your input. I agree with most of what you say. I am simply saying that if my child came home and announced to me that he or she was gay, I would not alienate them, but I would still not approve of or condone it. I definitely would show them the love of Jesus. Not condoning or approving of something doesn't necessarily mean alienation. I am aware that judgment is God's job, however, chapter 2 is referring to hypocritical judgment. Someone calling someone into judgment over a sin that they themselves are committing. Much like some of the politicians that have been exposed lately, who ran on a platform condemning same-sex relationships, only for it to be discovered and revealed that they themselves were engaging in homosexual activities. The Church does, however, have an obligation to judge certain things. Let me put it another way. We (especially those of us in leadership) have the responsibility to exercise discernment. For example, Matthew 7 starts with that famous line that people use, (out of context in most cases)"Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matthew 7:1 That's the only part of that passage that most folks ever look at, especially when trying to find easement for their own sin. However, a thourough study of this passage will reveal that Christ is talking about two different kinds of judgment here. The first kind in verses 1-5, is a carnal, earthly, sinful and hypocritical type of judgment. Christians are certainly not to be involved in that. However, look at verse 6 - "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." (Matthew 7:6) The Lord Jesus is saying you have to use some kind of judgment or discernment here. You have to make a determination as to WHAT is holy and WHO are dogs; WHAT are pearls and WHO is swine. That, my friend, requires some sort of judgment call. The apostle Peter states that "...the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17) The initial idea here seems to be that if God will punish the righteous when they sin, He will surely punish the ungodly. But, on another level, I believe that Peter is saying it's time for the Church to start using some spiritual judgment or discernment. If you will recall, the article I wrote primarily was dealing with the sin of homosexuality within the Church. We have no authority to judge those who are outside the fellowship of the Church - that IS God's job. All of the behaviors that merited the death penalty in the O.T. are infractions for which we discipline, or should discipline, believers within the church. We do not have the right to take a life or inflict physical death, but we can and should announce spiritual death to those who persist in their sins. Paul instructed the Corinthian church to put the immoral man, not to death, but out of the congregation (1 Corinthians 5:5). It is the duty of the Church and the ministers that God has set in it, to enforce such discipline. Now if you want to call that "judging them harshly", you need to re-read the teachings of Jesus, as well as the apostles. I mean, do you not think that it must be dealt with in the Church? I agree with you that "the Church as a whole" is "being sucked into the clinch of societal values rather than it's own." I totally agree that "...perhaps more of a return to spiritual purity within the Church itself as opposed to a country club atmosphere would be a better approach." I am fully aware that there is much in the form of idolatry that the Church is facing. I never once alluded to this being "the biggest attach [I think you meant attack here]" that my "faith faces." Certainly, I think that adults molesting children is a heinous sin and crime, but keep in mind, this article was only addressing one aspect of sin in the Church. In times past I have, and in the future I will, address other sins, as well. The one thing I do not totaly agree with you on is your last statement: "A sinful Pastor shepards a sinful people, but I guess thats a given." If you are implying that the only people in the Church who are living in sin are the ones who have a pastor who is living and thereby, leading them into sin, you cannot use that statement as a rule of thumb. The Bible states otherwise in volumes. Thank you for your thoughts and response. May the Lord bless you! Michael Parnell 2007-09-01 12:36:32 Posted by PastoratCTL (ctlfwc@yahoo.com)

okay, not relly sure what I was trying to argue In Christ 2007-09-01 13:32:22 Posted by Ross ()

hi Michael: What if a guest admitted to our home proceeded to our valuables, and stole some of them each visit. When confromted the guest might say, I am so sorry, but you see I cant't help myself,I was born like this, please understand how sorry I am. Now I am sure it would not take rocket science to say that even if we cared very much about him or her, we certainly would not allow this behavior any further in our home, for obvious reasons. God's house is much more important than the houses He gave us, yet sadly some saints, perhaps through ignorance or misinterpretation of God's word steadfastly allow biblically forbidden behavior (sin) to go on in God's house, and at times causing God to be wrongfully slandered in the eyes of the unsaved. When we stand firm in biblically based truth it is a more powerful witness to a lost and dying world, than pampering and pandering to sin. thanks for your blog, it has to be said and in love. love serola 2007-09-01 18:04:46 Posted by serola ()

Thanks, serola, for that very insightful metaphor. God bless! Michael Parnell 2007-09-03 11:55:32 Posted by PastoratCTL (ctlfwc@yahoo.com)

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