Tue, Dec 7th - 2:18PM
Women: Honored By the Church / Women Ministers: Oppressed By the Church? (Part 2)
Women: Honored By the Church / Women Ministers: Oppressed By the Church? (Part 2)
Continued from previous November Post)
[ As
we continue, I would like to consider a few more things concerning
Paul's writing regarding women. Paul declares that women certainly can
pray and prophesy publicly in the church assembly, for in 1 Corinthians 11:5 he says, "But
every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered
dishonereth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven." Now
it stands to reason that Paul is not going to tell women they can pray
and prophesy within certain guidelines in chapter 11, and then turn
right around and tell them that they must unanimously "keep silent" in chapter 14. That would be a
contradiction and we know that the Word of God does not contradict itself. Apparently,
Philip's four daughters did not believe that God had universally
commanded all women to keep silent in the church assembly.
Dr. Jefferson Thompson states: "We must keep in mind that Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians -40 concerns self control, decency and order in public meetings, not qualifications for ministry. While basic general principles of order are universal, Paul's specific instructions to these women in should
be understood in their cultural context. In early Christian gatherings,
women and men sat apart from each other. These uneducated, formerly
pagan, Corinthian women would often disrupt the meetings by conversing
among themselves, shouting to their husbands, or attempting to
ask questions of the speaker. Hence, Paul's instructions
to these women to wait until they get home to ask questions. According
to one Greek scholar, Paul's statement that "it is not permitted unto
them to speak," should actually be translated, "it is not permitted unto
them to converse." Carrying on conversations in church meetings while
someone is endeavoring to communicate God's Word should always be
considered rude behavior and should not be tolerated. So here, Paul is
not even dealing with whether or not women are qualified to teach or
preach. He is simply correcting rude and inconsiderate behavior." And I would add that this would include men misbehaving as well as women. In
all of my experience in ministry and as pastor, on the rare occasions
that I have had to call down and sit people down, because of rude and
inconsiderate behavior, it has been more men than women.
Dr. Thompson goes on to say in regard to others who claim that Paul universally forbade all women to teach, using 1 Tim. 2:11-12: "Should
we understand this verse to be a universal prohibition, forbidding all
women to ever teach? Remember that Koine Greek, in which the original
was written, had no capitalization or punctuation. Also remember that at
the time Paul sent this letter, Timothy was the pastor of the church at
Ephesus is known historically as the headquarters of the cult of Diana,
recognized as the Mother Goddess and portrayed with many breasts. Many
who were being saved in were coming into the church
from a pagan spiritual background of matriarchal, militant feminism.
According to some sources, the word translated "women" here could also
be translated
"wives." In this case, rather than outlining qualifications for
ministry, Paul would be dealing primarily with order in the marriage,
countering the invasive influence of the matriarchal Spiritual climate
in . Paul is saying, "I do not allow a wife to TEACH
that she is to be in spiritual authority over her husband, or to
actually usurp the authority that belongs to him." So long as she is not
preaching that she should be in spiritual authority over her husband,
there are no scriptural prohibitions to stop believing women from
proclaiming any valid biblical/ doctrine or truth!"]
Moving right along with the email:
1 Tim. 5:17, "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching." [So, if a woman works hard at preaching and teaching, because she is a woman, she shouldn't receive any kind of honor?]
In 1 Tim. 3:15 we
are told this is how we are to conduct ourselves in the household of
God. When a woman is a pastor and/or elder, she is in a place of
authority over men. Paul clearly tells us this authority in the church
structure is not the place for a woman because Adam was made first. [Read comments on this in previous post and/or newsletter.] This is not a cultural issue. [Oh, but I think we have established that it really is a cultural issue.] Remember, Eve sinned first, but sin entered the world through Adam, not Eve (Rom. 5:12),
because Adam was in the position of authority. This is why husbands
are the head of the wife even as Christ is head of the church (Eph. 5:23). The place of authority in the church and family is not the place of the woman. [So,
if there are no
men available to answer the call of God, should there be no local
church established if there are only women available to establish it? Also, when people continue to throw up the word "authority", in what sense do they mean it. Now, if they take it to mean "the boss", then that explains some things. However, the word "authority" means, among other things "function", which we need a proper understanding of. That applies to men and women. Guys,
authority in a biblical sense doesn't mean that you lord it over your
wife, or women in general, but it means that you carry on the
responsibility assigned to you. If we could get men to focus as much on what Paul said in Ephesians 5:25, when he said, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;",
as much as
they worry over whether a woman is to preach or not, then perhaps they
wouldn't feel so threatened when a woman has the call of God on her
life.]
1 Tim. 5:17 tells
us that the elders are to receive honor, especially those who preach
and teach. Therefore, the pastor is an elder by definition and the
elder is to be a "man of one woman." The word "elders" here is
masculine in the Greek. So, Paul is telling us how the church is to
operate (1 Tim. 3:15), and that the place of ecclesiastical authority is based on male eldership because Adam was created first (1 Tim. 2:12-13). This is doctrine, not culture. [Most
of the Bible was written in the masculine, but the principles applied
to everyone. Again, see comments in previous post and/or newsletter]
Some say that women pastors and elders is not an essential issue so we should not worry about it. If that is the case, then why did God tell us women are not to teach or exercise authority over men (1 Tim. 2:12-13) in the church (1 Tim. 3:15)? Why did he tell us that an elder is to be a "man of one woman" (Titus 1:5-6) if we are not to worry about it? [Again,
we must go back to context, and since we covered this previously we
won't belabor the point again, however, I will say that I do concur that
it is a non-essential. So many times the enemy
gets us to major in the minors.]
What about equality and verses with women in leadership?
Gal. 3:28,
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man,
there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
This verse is not about women pastors and elders. It is about
salvation in Christ, not church eldership, so it doesn't apply. [How convenient that it doesn't apply simply because eldership is not explicitly mentioned. Again, context and principle apply. Let's examine the verse. "There is
neither Jew not Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." All races, classes, and sexes are one in Christ and equal in rights and privileges regarding gospel benefits. They make one body with Christ as the head (1 Cor. ,28-31; Ephes. 1:20-23; Ephes. 2:19-22; Col. 3:11). The gulf between Jews and Gentiles, masters and slaves, male and female has been bridged by Christ and the gospel.
[one in Christ Jesus] All (everyone say "ALL") Christians are one in unity, in rights, and in privileges as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one in unity and not one in person (John 17:11,21-22; 1 John 5:7).]
Deborah (Judges 4,5) was an Old Testament Judge, not a New Testament elder. [However,
let us remember that in both the Old and the New Testaments we are
reminded that God's character and principles never change. Malachi 3:6 says, "For I am the Lord, I change not;" Then the writer of Hebrews 13:8 tells us, "Jesus Christ the same
yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Matthew Henry's Commentary tells us: "Deborah was a prophetess; one instructed in Divine knowledge by the inspiration of the Spirit of God. She judged as God's mouth to them; correcting abuses, and redressing grievances. By God's direction, she ordered
Barak to raise an army, and engage Jabin's forces. Barak insisted much
upon her presence. Deborah promised to go with him. She would not send
him where she would not go herself. Those who in God's name call others
to their duty should be ready to assist them in it." Now, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a person (female) in
authority to me.]
Prophesying women (Acts 21:8,9) are not elders/pastors. [No more so than prophesying men are elders/pastors. To begin with we must understand that there is a difference in the office of a prophet and exercising a prophetic gift. Giving
forth a word of prophecy is not limited to someone who walks in the
office of prophet, and the gift of prophecy that Paul refers to in his
writings is not confined to the male gender.]
Priscilla (Rom. 16:3,4), a fellow worker in Christ, is not said to be an elder/pastor. [But, she's not said not to be, either. Dr. Eddie Hyatt gives us this insight: In verses 3-5, Paul refers to Priscilla and and the church that is in their
house. Priscilla and are always
mentioned together in Scripture which indicates that they worked and
ministered together as a husband and wife team. This is confirmed by
Acts where both Priscilla and took
Apollos aside and both explained to him the way of God more accurately.
In the Greek, Priscilla is always mentioned first. Since Paul reversed
the culturally accepted manner of mentioning the husband first, he
obviously wanted to make a point about her leadership role. Many
commentators conclude that Priscilla is mentioned first because she was
the spiritually gifted one and the leader of the church that met in
their home. Again, the evidence is overwhelming. Priscilla functioned as a pastor."]
Phoebe (Rom. 16:1) is a servant (diakonos) of the church, not an elder/pastor. Note that Jesus came not to be served, but to serve (diakonos) (Mark 10:45). [No one can argue that] The government is called a minister (diakonos) of God (Rom.
13:4). [She was a deaconess (diakonos
– same Greek word for minister) of the church at Cenchrea, her duties,
among other things, was probably to attend to female converts, helping
them get ready for baptism; to visit the sick and those in prison; and
attend to all parts of the church work among women which could not be
performed by people. That sounds like pastoral duties to me. She was probably the bearer of the epistle to Rome. Again, I would like to refer to Dr. Hyatt: "Diakonos, or its verb form, is translated minister in 23 other places in the New Testament. For example, in Eph. 3:7, Paul says that he became a minister (diakonos) according to the gift of the grace of God.
Phoebe, therefore, was a minister, probably a pastor, from the church
in Cenchrea. This is borne out by vs. 2 where Paul refers to her as a helper of many and of myself also. The Greek word translated helper in this verse is prostates and, according to Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, means to set over, to rule, superintend, preside over, protect, and care for.
When this passage is examined apart from our traditions and prejudicial
assumptions, the evidence is overwhelming that Phoebe functioned in
what today we would call pastoral
ministry."]
Junia (Rom. 16:7, see www.carm.org/junia) may have been a female apostle (not one of the 12), though this is debated. [I'll give you that – it is debated. Once more, Dr. Hyatt please: "Junia
is a feminine name and so we have here a woman who is recognized by
Paul as an apostle. The early church father, John Chrysostom, commenting
on this verse, said, ‘Oh how great is the devotion of this woman, that
she should be even counted worthy of the appellation of apostle.' If a
woman can function as an apostle, may not she also function as a
pastor."]
Still, even if she were, apostles are not for today and an apostle is not a pastor/elder. [This statement is so utterly ridiculous it is beyond comprehension. This is what is known as a cessationist's view of the scriptures and really could be fodder for a whole other article. Simply
put, a cessationist is one who believes that many miracles, gifts and
manifestations of the Holy Spirit that we see in the Word of God have
ceased to exists or be manifested today. Those who take this view should really carefully read the Ephesians 4 passage. Distinguishing among the gifts of 12:6-8, which are given by the Father, the gifts of 1 Cor. 12:8-10, given by the Holy Spirit, and those here, which are explicitly given by Christ the
Son (v. 8), is pivotal in comprehending the whole scope of spiritual gifts. However, I will try to be brief here. To
begin with there is not one verse of scripture, especially and/or
particularly in context, to support such a ludicrous statement of
belief. Lets look at the passage from Ephesians 4:11-15 - "And He [Christ]
gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and
some, pastors and teachers; [12] For the perfecting of the saints, for
the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13]
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the
Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the
fulness of Christ: [14]
That we henceforth
be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every
wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby
they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may
grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
"If you are going to do away with the ministry gift of apostle, then you must do away with the other four, as well. Some cessationists already do away with prophets in addition to apostles. However, you cannot say that one no longer exists without lumping them all into non-existence. The
work of the ministry is to be the activity of each member of the body
of Christ and not the exclusive charge of select leaders. Taken
together, vv. 11, 12 reveal that the task of the gifted leader is to
cultivate the individual and corporate ministries of those he or she
leads and believe me, that is more than a lone pastor can pull of by
himself or herself. You will note a progression taking
place (a) in maturity (v. 13), (b) in stability (v. 14), and (c) in
integrity (v. 15), that should take
place in every individual member's experience. The expected results are growth and edifying in the body of Christ. The death nail to that whole argument though, is plainly seen in verse 13: "Till [until] we all come in the unity of the faith,…" Now I am here to tell you that has not happened yet! Then, "unto a perfect man", or “perfect body of Christ”, that surely hasn’t
happened, yet! Finally, you have to deal with that last phrase in vs. 13, "unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:" This positively has not taken place yet, and anyone who thinks so is certainly a few bricks shy of having a load. The
"measure of the stature of the fullness" is seldom mentioned much less
demonstrated, while the stature of littleness, emtiness, and
powerlessness of Christianity is often emphasized and demonstrated by,
in most cases, those of the cessationistic point of view. But, according to verse 13, these five-fold ministry gifts, including "apostles", are to function "TILL WE ALL COME IN THE UNITY OF THE FAITH"! So, you can't
very well use that flimsy argument to nullify and/or vilify female ministers. As a matter-of-fact, cessassionists are also the ones who propagate that the days of miracles are over. If
that is the case then as the apostle Paul said, "we are of all men most
miserable", and he, in fact, was referring to the miracle of
resurrection that is to one day occur for all believers.
Suffice
it to say that if the cessationists are right in that view, then I
propose that there has been not one person saved since whenever these
miracles were supposed to have ceased, and according to some of them
that has been about the last 1900-2000 years. I would think that any Christian would readily admit that the greatest miracle in the world is when someone who is lost and without God comes into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ!
Is
it not the miracle of miracles when we, in our black and filthy sin,
get dipped in the precious scarlet blood of Jesus, and we come out
whiter than snow? How can that be anything less than the
greatest miracle that millions upon millions of people down through the
centuries have professed has happened in their lives? Yet, if our
cessationist friends are right in their belief that miracles have
ceased, then by their own admission, none of these millions, including
themselves, past or present, have been saved, therefore, certainly have
no relationship with God, because that in and of itself requires that
the miraculous must take place! Oh, don't even get me started! ‘Nuff said on that, for now.]
(To Be Concluded Next Post)
Pastor Mike
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Name: Michael Parnell
